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KOMPA! MAGAZINE The site for Haitian Music News as it happens, debates & more.
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princessj

Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1070 Location: The Imperial Palace  |
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 10:58 am Post subject: When Did The HMI Become A Test Site? |
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I was going to post this as a Blog, but I decided it would better fit here in the Music forum. Now I know I will most likely be labled a hater of sorts, no matter how valid the upcoming argument may be, and no matter how mature I try to be. I understand there are some who will dredge up things from the past, either said in jest or confusion, but still I will attempt to interact with those who are willing to give the "voye monte" and "farouche" post a break and participate in quality debates:
There is an ongoing trend I've recently noticed on KM, and else where to be honest. This popular concept has me questioning myself...in search of understanding why it is that for many (not all) the HMI is a test forum. For some reason it has become standard practice for ill prepared individuals to grab a microphone, stand before the public give a little "yayad" and be praised as having talent. Then to further complicate matters, there or supporters who make statements such as "give so and so time to improve" and when supposed said improvement "happens" you hear "ooh wow considering where so and so came from, this is amazing."
While keeping in mind room for growth is vital for any craftsman, I would have thought a certain level of capability should be present before a performer is unleashed upon the masses. What I would call a novice (by my standards) I see some are acclaiming...as though it is common practice for a "vocalist" (and I say that loosely since I refuse to use the term ARTIST in those situations) to come untrained, and develop his/her skills right it full view of others. It is one thing if said individuals has already accumilated some talent and uses experiences to cultivate what he/she already possesses, but to come untutored and expect the audience to eat it up, then have us the consumers buy into this trend...well I find that to be degrading toward us the recipients of said product.
Is it alright for the HMI to become the new testing ground for upcoming singers/musicians?
Should we see this as best practice for these individuals to test their vocals/skills on us, and accept it is the norm?
Do we lower our standards and expectations out of "support" for our Haitian musicians, and be compassionate while encouraging these musicians to believe their own hype?
Will this trend continue for the forseeable future and how will it affect our Kompa and the next generation of listeners?
These are the things I'd like to understand before I enter the new year, with hopes that I can either have a new outlook on the HMI, or learn to "work with what" I'm given... _________________
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menkonpa
Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 504 Location: Raleigh, NC  |
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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PrincessJ, thanks for bringing up so many great points. Let's count how many board members will respond to this post with a well-formed opinion. I am not daring anyone here, but I will not be surprised if there are not many.
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Do we lower our standards and expectations out of "support" for our Haitian musicians, and be compassionate while encouraging these musicians to believe their own hype? |
We do lower our standards to support the musicians because we understand that the music business does not have money. Not to support a musician/singer, even though he or she sucks, could potentially put him/her out of a job. Therefore we encourage them while being compassionate. Since it is hard to succeed in the HMI, anyone who has somewhat made it through and came out with a product is seen as a "survivor." We haitians in general are very tolerant. Besides, compas music is not much based on the singer's talent as much as the groove and musicians talent (Roberto and T-Vice compared to K-Dans and Jude Jean), therefore a singer may be horrific, but since its band is playing great kompa, people like it. In a serious business, Nicky or MeiMei trying to sing coming from the low singing skills that they have (I don't know if Nicky is still as bad as he used to be) would not be acceptable (I am not scared of calling them out either, no disrespect)
I think some of the fans in the HMI don't even have standards when it comes to what is sub par and what is great and what's worth being praised.
Some of the musicians/vocalists that are out there are not the most talented (Britney pulled it off even in the AMI) but they were the ones with the means to succeed. If Haiti were not so poor, the music business would be more competitive and these fake singers would not even be able to buy a mic, alewe pou chante nan youn.
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Will this trend continue for the forseeable future and how will it affect our Kompa and the next generation of listeners? |
Yes this trend will continue and has just started. Advances in sound engineering can make anyone sound awesome, and since compas is not very focused on the singer's skills (it should be) it will not be seen as fundamental in a live setting.
To repair this, the singers must take vocal training. There is not many people born with natural singing talents, as some point, you will find your limit. With singing training, you can still be an average but disciplined, coherent, powerful singer. You can learn to learn your voice and what you can and can't do. A good singer does not need to have an outstanding voice.
How will it affect our music. In a very bad way. The Zouk singers are whooping our butts hands down. At some point, all the bands will catch up to each other in terms of technology and sound, and one of the biggest difference between bands will be the singer.
Whatever has happened to the business has already started happening. We have lowered our standards to the point where anyone (even when you can't carry a note) can take a mic and they are still accepted.
In all, the HMI is in great danger, money, talent, organization. It is in the fans' hands to reject this standard, to push our singers (and I mean almost all of them) to hire vocal coaches and to the new ones not to come out until you are good enough. You don't have to be a Jude Jean, or a Cubano, or Emeline Michel, .... but don't interfere with my hearing. Pa pete tenpan m'. For example, Pouchon could become a great singer if he hired a vocal coach, and learned to control his voice.
Well I am out. [/quote] |
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Dimea-A-Dozen

Joined: 24 Apr 2007 Posts: 39
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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Don't mind me guys...I'm just going to bounce this post to the top...just an observation. |
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princessj

Joined: 17 Jul 2006 Posts: 1070 Location: The Imperial Palace  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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menkonpa wrote: |
PrincessJ, thanks for bringing up so many great points. Let's count how many board members will respond to this post with a well-formed opinion. I am not daring anyone here, but I will not be surprised if there are not many. |
Unfortunately a vast majority of KM members find more pleasure in breaking each other down, blasting artist, and giving boomshots. Not to say this thread is of the most importance, but I would have expected the many puported Kompa "know it alls" to have contribute in here...nonetheless we will press forward.
menkonpa wrote: |
In a serious business, Nicky or MeiMei trying to sing coming from the low singing skills that they have (I don't know if Nicky is still as bad as he used to be) would not be acceptable (I am not scared of calling them out either, no disrespect) |
Well I won't all any particular person out in this instance, but I believe you have a strong point here, I firmly stand by the belief that if our KOMPA artists went and tried out for American Idol only 10% of them would have a chance of making it past the judges and of that 10 only 2% would be female...going on vocals alone. I would place Nia, Princess Georgy, Porsha (sp? from D'3sire), and Sandra up there, and recently Vee has been proving her worth as well as Misty Jean. Now when it comes to the Zouk artist I would say 50% would see that golden ticket, the remainder because they don't have "the look" Hollywood is so prone on seeking.
menkonpa wrote: |
I think some of the fans in the HMI don't even have standards when it comes to what is sub par and what is great and what's worth being praised.
Yes this trend will continue and has just started. Advances in sound engineering can make anyone sound awesome, and since compas is not very focused on the singer's skills (it should be) it will not be seen as fundamental in a live setting. |
Isn't one of the grounds for having KM (and other sites) to educate nonmusicians in a way that they can discern between quality Kompa and nonsense? Shouldn't one of the focal points of having these forums be to help those whom know little of the genre and music as a whole to develop auditory discrimination so that they can better appreciate music for the art form that it is? Well if so, why do we fall short? Why isn't that work being done here...it seems we are so more into the gossip and banter then actual music discussions. True the artists being married, fired, and rehired is of interest, but the body of this forum should be more about the art inself then the frills surrounding it.
menkonpa wrote: |
To repair this, the singers must take vocal training. There is not many people born with natural singing talents, as some point, you will find your limit. With singing training, you can still be an average but disciplined, coherent, powerful singer. You can learn to learn your voice and what you can and can't do. A good singer does not need to have an outstanding voice.
How will it affect our music. In a very bad way. The Zouk singers are whooping our butts hands down. At some point, all the bands will catch up to each other in terms of technology and sound, and one of the biggest difference between bands will be the singer.
Whatever has happened to the business has already started happening. We have lowered our standards to the point where anyone (even when you can't carry a note) can take a mic and they are still accepted. |
While I would rather hear an amazing singer with remarkable vocal range and what not, I can absolutely respect a mediocre singer with limited abilities who has worked well on his/her craft and manages to be a convencing performer. What I can not stomach though, is an ill prepared, untutored "singer" being presented to the public and it being exoected of us to see this as the norm. I mean how long should "pran mwen san fos, san soutyen" be an ideal for our "musicians"?
menkonpa wrote: |
In all, the HMI is in great danger, money, talent, organization. It is in the fans' hands to reject this standard, to push our singers (and I mean almost all of them) to hire vocal coaches and to the new ones not to come out until you are good enough. You don't have to be a Jude Jean, or a Cubano, or Emeline Michel, .... |
I highly doubt the fans will ever reject these practices, nor develop better standards until we who can see past the glitz and glamour become brave enough to educate them. When you look at it is isn't the fault of the fans, but of the big shots who make the decisions to hire someone less qualified for whatever reason, it is also the fault of the medias who continue to perpetuate the "careers" of these individuals by promoting their propagenda...they are the ones which have the greatest influence on todays pop culture as we know it. Thank you Menkonpa...I appreciate your contributions thus far. Dimea-A-Dozen, thanks as well...at least we know it has reached you. _________________
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SIROMYEL
Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 9967 Location: TAMPA  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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mmmmmh!
M'ap suiv toujou. |
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Kompa Love

Joined: 20 Jun 2006 Posts: 2631 Location: FL  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Over the weekend when the Mei Mei “No One” interpretation of Alicia Keys came out, I said “In HMI standards this is fine”. What MenKompa broke down for us (above) is exactly what I meant. We (Haitians) accept whatever is being presented to us as entertainment as long it is from a well known source. So yes the standard of product that is being feed to the public/fans is lower than others markets (not to mention AMI), and that goes for not only music, but for the movie industry as well. The product (movies) is mediocre however the majority accepts it because we want to support our fellow Haitians which lower our standard.
A couple of months ago, I saw a petition to vote for Samuel Dalembert (NBA player for the Philadelphia 76ers) to be an ALL STAR. This is just to show you how far we are willing to go.
So PrincessJ to answer your question, yes it will go on unless this post reaches the powers that be. _________________ Man becomes man only by his intelligence, but he is man only by his heart.
Henri F. Amiel |
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SIROMYEL
Joined: 11 Mar 2006 Posts: 9967 Location: TAMPA  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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princess J, While I understand your point perfectly,
I have a few objections.
1. This is true for any other entertainment business. You have the ones with real talent and then you have the ones that well...are just money makers for a time. The AMI has your BRITNEY SPEARS, YOUR PINK, YOUR B2K ETC who only danse and lip sing. The only difference is that the entertainment is so on par that they have us all fooled for a while.
2. Like MENKONPA ALREADY said, our music is more based on music than vocals. And quite frankly I think we probably have better singers now than ever.
The public is now putting pressure on the singers to be better, and on the band to come out with better singers. The singers are feeling this pressure and taking music lessons. i.e nikki and Roberto.
The only two singer that I can think of that truly cannot sing are roberto and pouchon...and roberto is slowly but surely leaving leaving pouchon behind.
Most of our singers now are pretty good. We should bemore concerned about bands that are coming up with bad material... and getting lazy musically, like carimi and djakout. |
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kompared

Joined: 13 Mar 2006 Posts: 10274 Location: miami, Florida  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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As long as our fans take PRIDE in DISSING a talent like PIPO we have a long way to go as far as setting standard in term of vocalist.
If you are a great singer in the HMI, the fans will find a way to put you down. Whether they say you do not look good enough or do not know how to jump( vole pompe, rele anmwey), you will not last longer...
VIVE THE HMI....  _________________ Kite'l mache
Last edited by kompared on Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zipgenel

Joined: 30 May 2006 Posts: 12708 Location: palm beach  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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kompared ou pale wi la....
a few months back... after the release of "zafè'm se pa'm" by hangout sang by Mei Mei... Georgie released her version... now comparing both version of the song... it's clear that Geogie was pure talent and Mei Mei was just taking her first step. whatever the drama that was going between Georgie and Hangout, Georgie also had a point.. to my surprise, because Mei Mei looked great and appealing, many members of this board started calling Georgie names for no reason, accusing her of all type of stuff just to make a case for the new girl in town...
I don't discriminate.. I will give credit where it's due... don't expect me to praise something that I don't think was worth to begin with... the moto that some of us go by: "don't hate, appreciate" can be used in the wrong condition sometimes... I will appreciate something that is good... am not gonna sit there and praise you when you are not worth it...
in all, princess j... is right... the Hmi is not a test site... it's growing industry just like any other music industry... the money may not be right, but still that does not mean it's a place for the worst of the worst to make a career, expecting that they gonna fly under the radar undetected...EVEN THOUGH i used to have a problem with people personality, I can't deny him his praises, because the boy can hold it down when it comes to singing... and that's what he does for a living... now let's say he did not know how to sing, but know how to dance... he would get a lot of heat.. se nan aksepte mediocrite sa yo... ki fè peyi nou an paka avanse... twòp tolerans..  _________________ P.P.P= PIYAY POU PIPO
PIPO= PI HIGH PI WO |
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LouisJeanBeauge
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Posts: 3603 Location: Mombin Crochu, Haiti  |
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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kompared wrote: |
As long as our fans take PRIDE in DISSING a talent like PIPO we have a long way to go as far as setting standard in term of vocalist.
If you are a great singer in the HMI, the fans will find a way to put you down. Whether they say you do not look good enough or do know how to jump( vole pompe, rele anmwey), you will not last longer...
VIVE THE HMI....  |
I'm all for talent and skills...But you must not forget that it's called the entertainment business for a reason. It's not that I agree with the practice but it is what it is. For example, people like Gracia Delva not because he is a great singer, but because people can relate to him. The guy has charisma.
As to PJ's question: Is it alright for the HMI to become the new testing ground for upcoming singers/musicians?
PJ,
You asked this question as if it's something that started to happen recently. This new batch of bad singers and half-assed- yes I said that-musicians started with what we call the new generation. Everybody think they can sing and/or play an instrument. This is also caused by a huge void in music education in the motherland. I don't know of any good music school in Haiti. So our upcoming artists are left with emulating the sounds and vocals of the current artists we have.
As to your question of do we lower our standards for haitian artists/vocalists? Heck yeah we do. If these vocalists/artists' work were from any other genre, you couldn't give them away. This unfortunately does not stop at just music, it's an issue with just all other artistic production. The haitian movie business even in it's embryonic stage started on the wrong foot. |
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